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I have found this thread very difficult to read due to the tone and many knee jerk reactions displayed by many of the members. I have not weighed in on the issue until now as I wanted to think my response through prior to putting something in print so I could address the real issues and not my likes, dislikes, and frustration as some seem to be doing.

My hope is that I have explained myself well enough for all to understand:

Games criteria for CSAF database entry:

• Mandatory
  - Legal weights as per CSAF rules
  - Judge familiar with Highland Games and CSAF rules. This could be any of the following but not limited to: certified judge (eg SGA clinic) former thrower, fellow thrower from another class, one with coaching experience, and/or avid enthusiast who has taken the time to learn the sport's rules
  - Application of aforementioned CSAF rules
  - Planned in advance with promotion and potential for any athlete to compete whether it be via application, ranking based invite etc
  - Aligns to the mission and vision of the CSAF
  I feel the CSAF should have an approval system that Heavy Events competitions could apply to when planning competitions. Nothing cumbersome; my thought would be a very informal process where an athletic director could apply via email to the elected CSAF executive describing the event. If approved, the marks could be entered into the CSAF database. If not approved, the CSAF would send 'recommendations' that would make the games certifiable; therefore, legal for entry into the database. If the AD chooses to continue with a non sanctioned/approved event, no problem. The event could take place without any recourse from the CSAF or its members; however, the marks would simply not go into the database. I believe the CSAF executive with its cross Canada representation could easily come up with a list of approvable games that would not need to go through the process; however, games in question (Beaumont or Warf Rat Rally I will use as examples since they are being challenged) could apply and any new games could also apply for database worthy legitimacy.
  
  
  Types of games that should not be included in our database:
  - Demonstrations. A demos is exactly what the name implies, not a competition. Kilts, legit weights or not. There is no place in the DB for demos, unless this is a promoted competition as explained above. Examples would be the family reunion, the local agricultural fair, or the entertainment for the Robert Burns supper. Examples of database worthy games would be Fort Edmonton and Folkorama in Winnipeg (however, due to field constraints at Folkorama, no hammer can be thrown which would exclude it from DB legitimacy. But this competition is more than a demo; it has been a promoted competition)
  - Strongman competitions that just happen to throw some of the heavy events as this would not align with CSAF vision and mission. I understand many highland games have strongman type events as challenge events, but they are highland games first; therefore, have a place in the DB.
  - Non-promoted, short notice games between friends or training partners.
  
  
  Before I state my opinions on the ranking system, let me say that I have no personal stake in how the rankings are put together. Until two athletes West of Ontario turn it on, and a half a dozen others in Canada make strides over and above my own progress, I'll most likely get an invite to the nationals so long as we have games hospitable enough to host them. And, if I do find myself out of an invite, I guess I'd better throw farther next year instead of whine my way into loop hole for an invite. However, even though I have no personal stake in the issue, as an elected board member (and thank-you all for the re-election), I must look out for the best interest of the CSAF and its members.
  
  
  Yes the ranking system does have flaws. To date there are many circumstances of outranked athletes dominating the season head to head series with the higher ranked athlete. However, since there is no league or official heavy events circuit, head to head competition cannot be ranked. Sean is very correct in his description of why an averaged system is flawed as well. Dirk also explained loop holes in this type of system. If an averaged system is implemented (which I am not in favour of, but to add to the possibilities…), my suggestion is to average each athlete's top five throws in each event, since five seems to be the magic number that has been selected. Other flaws include the weight compensated stone formula as there is neither empirical data supporting the formula nor is there any physics applied to the formula to make it valid, but I'll stick to the issues at hand.
  
  
  I must say that the personal agendas and insincere cordiality displayed previously in this thread is quite disturbing. This sort of behaviour only detracts from the issues at hand. If Beaumont is such a problem, why was it not brought up years ago? Answer: because nobody got ousted from a CSAF championship invite because of good throwing at Beaumont in the past five years. Warf Rat Rally has been discussed in terms of its legitimacy due to the fact it takes place at a motorbike rally, but members have been split on the issue and it seems to have remained in the DB.
  
  
  My hope is that the dialogue from this thread and other forms of communication currently taking place will only improve heavy events in Canada in future years.
  
  
  Jason Johnston

Edited as formatting did not survive a copy and paste from MS Word.